| Former President Donald Trump had a busy weekend. Before his rally on Sunday at Madison Square Garden, which was filled with racist and sexist remarks against Vice President Kamala Harris and her supporters, Trump taped an episode of Joe Rogan’s podcast. Felix Gillette writes today about why that appearance was somewhat surprising. Plus: Bending Spoons is making its own path in private equity, and Meg Whitman is creating connections between Africa and US tech. If this email was forwarded to you, click here to sign up. Among all the crazy second acts in American life, Joe Rogan’s is one of the most astounding. Two decades ago, he was hosting the gross-out game show Fear Factor, watching contestants bathe themselves in tubs of fish guts and the like. Rogan appeared destined to spend the rest of his career, like many fellow comedians-turned-actors, grappling for attention on the slippery margins of the entertainment industry. Now he’s basking at center stage in US history. On Friday, in the closing moments of a toss-up presidential campaign, Donald Trump flew to Texas for an extended interview with Rogan (or, really, a normal interview with Rogan, who’s a bit of an endurance podcaster). Over almost three meandering hours, Trump suggested he might do away with income taxes in favor of tariffs, criticized polls as untrustworthy and said the biggest mistake of his first term was hiring disloyal people. Little of which sounded markedly different from what Trump has been saying on the campaign trail. But showing off novel policy positions was hardly the point. For Team Trump, the mere proximity to Rogan was its own reward, a communion they’d long been chasing. It isn’t hard to understand why. Since the 2016 election, the number of people listening to podcasts on a monthly basis in the US has more than doubled, as my colleague Ashley Carman recently noted. Several studies have suggested that people tend to trust podcasters more than other media personalities, particularly when evaluating news. Rogan, who started his show in 2009, quickly emerged as the champion of the ascendant industry—and remains so to this day.  Rogan has shown an ambivalence toward mainstream politicking Photographer: Jeff Bottari/Zuffa LLC In the second quarter of this year, The Joe Rogan Experience was the top podcast in the US, according to Edison Research. On YouTube, where Rogan’s show appears in video form, he has 17.5 million subscribers. It’s a significant audience, teeming with loyal young male listeners, eager to buy whatever Rogan and his guests are touting. In the studio, Rogan’s tone tends to be chummy, digressive, conspiratorial, adulatory and rarely oppositional. All of which was fully on display during his sit-down with Trump. To be on Rogan’s show, sharing stories and jokes and workout advice and conspiracy theories, is to be welcomed into an enviable club. Honored members of the Roganverse, such as Elon Musk, stop by repeatedly to enjoy the warmth of Rogan’s lionizing regard. Trump’s initiation was a long time coming—and something of a surprise. In recent years, Rogan has positioned himself as a major kingmaker in the comedy industry. Since opening up his own club, the Comedy Mothership in downtown Austin in early 2023, he’s been actively recruiting, training and promoting the next generation of joke tellers. (Over the weekend, Tony Hinchcliffe, one of the comics in Rogan’s inner circle, made headlines from Trump’s Madison Square Garden rally, by telling a joke insulting Puerto Rico.) In short order, Rogan has managed to bend the well-established circuitry of the comedy industry to his liking. But in politics Rogan’s ambitions to date have been much more constrained. Yes, he’s made his libertarian political views and irritation with progressive finger-wagging a recurring theme of his podcast and stand-up routine. And he’s occasionally expressed support for specific candidates—Bernie Sanders in 2020 and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. earlier this year. All of it, however, has been accompanied by a healthy dose of ambivalence toward mainstream politicking. In 2022, Rogan revealed that he’d had the opportunity to interview Trump several times and turned him down at every turn. This year, even as more of his pals, including Musk and Kennedy, shifted to Team Trump, Rogan resisted. Until now. How much a single, convivial interview at Rogan’s side actually helped Trump in the waning moments of a long campaign is debatable. (And Rogan, for what it’s worth, has said in the past that he’s not a Trump fan.) But for devoted Rogan-watchers, his willingness to jump into the political arena at such a crucial moment, bears watching. Was this a one-time digression? Or something else? Rogan has also been courting Harris to come on his show, though so far she’s declined. At some point during Rogan’s ascendancy, it became fashionable to describe him as “Oprah Winfrey for men.” It may be hard to remember now, but there was a long period when Winfrey herself, then the most influential talk show host in America, was similarly reluctant to throw her support behind political candidates. Eventually she overcame her disinclination. During the 2008 presidential campaign, she fully embraced Barack Obama, ultimately helping to propel him into the White House. Ever since, she’s been an active and engaged promoter of Democratic candidates and causes, most recently backing Harris. Rogan’s interview with Trump is not that. Not even close. Not yet. But it sure looks like the first step in a new direction. More from Felix Gillette: Did you know that in the past decade, Dav Pilkey has been the second-bestselling author in the US kids’ printed book market, behind only Dr. Seuss? The next book in the Dog Man series, Big Jim Begins, comes out Dec. 3. And the character makes his leap to the big screen in January. This is a big moment for young readers: Dog Man Movie Is Here to Swoop In and Rescue the Children’s Book Business | 
